Brett Goldstein Talks His Dark Turn in 'Shrinking' Season 4, 'Ted Lasso.'

The moment Brett Goldstein is on the verge of saying anything remotely serious, he starts retching, both for my amusement and to suppress the urge. In truth, it's probably a little of both, but every time the conversation turns to a lesson learned, a compliment received or, God forbid, the trade, the 44-year-old seems physically ill. “People talking about their trial is disgusting,” says the English native turned reluctant Angeleno. “Shut up and do the job.”

Goldstein may be taking his own advice too seriously. Since he found success as the endearingly gruff Roy Kent Ted Lassoa role that earned him two consecutive Emmys, the actor-writer-comedian has yet to hit pause. There's both a seemingly everlasting stand-up tour and a weekly podcast Movies to be buried withas well as being introduced as Hercules in Marvel's Thor: Love and Thunder and play the lead role alongside Jennifer Lopez in Netflix's upcoming romantic comedy Romance in the office. Goldstein also wrote and starred in this almost futuristic love story All of youpremiered at the Toronto Film Festival, and when Shrinkingthe Apple TV+ therapy comedy he created with Jason Segel and Ted Lasso Chief Bill Lawrence, will be back on October 16th, he will be there as well. In fact, he was given a surprisingly dark role alongside Segel and Harrison Ford. During a recent evening at Warner Bros., after a day spent in the not-so-officially sorted Season 3 writers' room, for ShrinkingGoldstein attempted to diagnose his work ethic by dodging Ted Lasso speculation about Season 4 and offering his reasoning for why he believes most comics aren't “dickheads.”

By any standard, it seems like your plate is perpetually full. Do you think you'll drop something?

I've always been like that, working on 12 things at once. But many, many years passed before anyone saw anything I worked on. There's a window here and I don't know how long it stays open. I might even take advantage of it before it closes. I freaking love it too. So I wonder, why shouldn't I do everything, except maybe get some sleep and have an emotional life? I can say this in jest and also in earnest: one of the great things about being a workaholic is that you don't have time to stop and be sad.

I'd say your window seems securely open for the immediate future. Don't feel like you have some professional confidence?

I don't think I've met anyone who feels confident in this business. And you?

Some narcissists.

Oh yes, the Bad people, of course! But everyone else… I've met actors who have worked continuously for 40 years and still say, “Every time I finish a project I think, damn, that was my last job.” This doesn't go away. But I did it Sesame Street. If it ends tomorrow, if the window closes, I'm fine. “You did it Sesame Streetnow go live by the sea.

Ha Shrinking Have you changed your relationship with your therapist?

I don't think so? I don't even think he looks. We play with this on the show, but I think there should be some limits. I have been working with my therapist for a long time, and as time goes by, I know more about her life. But it's complicated. … The more you know, the more you worry about them. And it's probably not the best use of your time. It's a really strange relationship, isn't it? Who knows what he really thinks of me. He might think I'm horrible.

There's an emerging trend where you write for shows where you weren't originally cast. Tell me about it.

Bill had tried to convince me to at least do a cameo, something fun. Then we had written this character for season two, and we were about to cast him when Jason took me and Bill to his trailer and said, “Why doesn't Brett play this part?”

It's not a fun part and probably not what people might expect.

No. Bill said, “I don't see it.” But he called me the next morning and said something very sincere. Fuck you. He said, “I think you are a true artist, and if you think you can do it, I will support you.” It was scary, but screw it, let's try it. Anything scary, you should probably do it.

Brett Goldstein, who created Shrinking with Bill Lawrence and Jason Segel (right) joined Harrison Ford (left) and Segel for a recurring role in season two.

What's the scariest part for you: doing it or waiting to see how it will be received?

The part where you deliver the stuff is really scary. You love these things and would like to protect them, but you never know. I learned it by fucking Ted Lasso. We honestly didn't think anyone would watch it, let alone have that reaction.

Yes, but that show was an anomaly.

I don't think there's any lesson in that either. It was a miracle. You can't really copy it. I'm sure they're trying to replicate themselves now Little reindeer. (You sigh.) Everything that hits the mark is an original idea. It is never the thing that is a copy of the thing.

I have to ask you for information Ted Lassowhich recently picked up your option for a fourth season.

I'm sure of it. I don't know anything. I heard about it in the press.

You didn't.

No, I heard about it because I got a call from my team saying he had been picked up. (He laughs.) See! What the fuck are we doing? I feel sorry for you – I feel sorry for me – that we have to do this. But in this case, I honestly don't know anything. A plan will be put in place soon, but so far the plan is not in action.

The narrative around the show has always been incredibly positive. Then, in season three, there were delays, rumors of budget overruns, and, ultimately, decidedly mixed reviews. How did you digest that period?

It's a difficult question because I don't take time to reflect and feel. (He laughs.) How do I feel about this? We were following a vision, and there are things that I really admire about Jason Sudeikis and respecting that vision. We were aware of the Internet and what people liked and wanted. But we had to ignore all that and stick to the vision, for better or worse, regardless of the outcome. This is a rather impressive and unusual quality, certainly in a populist arena. It was received mixed, but that's the risk of taking the art route.

What's the one screenplay you couldn't sell?

I don't know if you've noticed, but most scripts are dog shit. And because people want me to be in something or help them create something, I get a lot of it. It's shocking, statistically, how many are terribly bad. But these two guys, Nate Smith and Jim Santangeli, sent me this pilot that was just, fuck. Here's where I get frustrated with this thing: It would have been a big shot, but it didn't happen. I was shocked. But the industry is in trouble and they are afraid.

Are people in your circles having better sales luck than at the beginning of the year?

No, I think it's just Bill Lawrence selling. (He laughs). Even in Toronto, I think there was only one movie sold in two weeks.

Goldstein, who famously asked to play Roy Kent after spending some time in the Ted Lasso writers room, recently wrote and starred in a feature film All of you (pictured here with Imogen Poots)

You've been touring for a while. When was the last time you bombed?

Last week I played Red Rocks. It was incredible. Thousands of people. Surprising. A few days before, I stopped by The Improv. A lot of movie executives came and I died on my ass. You just think, “Because they had to see This?”

Did you invite them?

I would never have done that! I didn't know they were coming. They said, “Hey, we came by to see you.” For heaven's sake! But this is the standard: king of the world for a day and then immediately embarrassed. I think that's why stand-up comedians aren't generally dickheads. It's hard to be arrogant and constantly humiliated.

What doors do you think are still closed to you?

David Lynch's house.

Well, it's not your fault. He is immunocompromised.

That's the problem. But David Lynch is number 1 on the list of people I still want on my podcast. Most of my friends are in round four, but there are a few white whales left: Martin Scorsese, Sofia Coppola, Spike Lee, the legends.

Speaking of legends, you work with Harrison Ford. Do you have any great stories of him on set?

He's a bad boy. It's cheeky. This season, there's a lakeside scene between him and Jason – and while we were shooting it, he was really excited to push Jason into it. He kept bringing it up. “You can't, Harrison, for a number of reasons. He'll get sick and we won't have a change of clothes. You'll ruin the shoot. We had to convince him not to do it. He likes to mess around. And you never get used to working with him.

Your podcast is called Movies to be buried with. What's the last movie you saw that you really loved?

I looked My old ass last night. It made me cry. It's a perfect example of all the things I love about making an item, because it's clearly made with love. I was always taught, as a writer, to love all your characters – and [writer-director Megan Park] he does it beautifully. It's funny, so specific and completely relatable. Like, I'm that girl. (He laughs.) I understand everything that is going on.

This isn't a criticism, but I'm curious if anyone at work has ever asked you to say “fuck” less often.

I wrote something. And the more I work on it, the more I think there's a way to do it that could work for both adults and younger people. This means removing the swear words. I'm really trying, but the problem is… it's better with swearing. But Ted Lasso it worked for families, and contains profanity. The kids are all messed up anyway. This is the least of their worries.

This story appears in the Oct. 9 issue of The Hollywood Reporter magazine. Click here to sign up.

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