Paul Schrader, at age 78, is becoming a little philosophical, a little introspective and, truth be told, extremely pessimistic about the future.
The legendary former film critic turned screenwriter and director: his long list of credits includes, as a screenwriter, Martin Scorsese's film Taxi driver (1976) and Raging Bull (1980) and, as a writer-director, American Gigolo (1980), First reformed (2017) and this year Oh Canada — will arrive in Tuscany this week, as a special guest of the Lucca Film Festival. On September 25, he will hold a Masterclass for university students and the following day, September 26, he will receive a lifetime achievement award. There will also be a retrospective of his greatest films.
DAY Rome met Schrader in New York, just before he hopped on his flight to Italy. Before gossiping and talking about John Travolta's trials and tribulations, Schrader went all metaphysical.
Paul, you are coming to Lucca. In a life of great successes, what would you like to be remembered for the most?
I could answer that question, but my answer would be based on a belief in the future, which I don't actually have. So it's kind of hard to talk about your legacy if you don't believe there will be any legacy. I think we've run out of steam here. Humanity is dying out. Carbon-based life has had a good run, but if there are humanoids a hundred years from now who hear or read this, then I think what I'm most proud of is that I created everything on spec. I started writing on spec with Taxi driverand I still write about speculation. I've written four films in the last two years about speculation. And that gives other people the feeling that they can do it. Just do it!
Tell me about writing Taxi driver “according to specifications”, as you said.
I wrote a lot before I met Martin. I wrote Taxi driver in 1972. I met Marty in 1974. I was a film critic in Los Angeles at the time and I had written a screenplay, a kind of existential cry. I didn't do anything with it. One day I was interviewing Brian De Palma and I said to Brian, “You know, I've written a screenplay.” And Brian said, “Oh, God, no, no, no, please!” And then later, when we were playing chess, he said, “Okay, I'll read your screenplay.” And he gave it to Marty. Brian said to Marty that the movie might be for him.
Aside Taxi driveryour other most iconic films are Raging Bull AND American Gigolo. Giorgio Armani once told me a story about how you brought John Travolta to Milan to be fitted by Armani for the role that Richard Gere would later play. Do you remember that?
I have a photograph of it. I literally have a photograph of Giorgio taking John's measurements. And Sergio [Galeotti]who had been Armani's partner in both business and life for many, many years, was watching. John and I had come down from London, where he had opened FatAnd then he dropped out.
But before Travolta dropped out, he had already tried it himself, right?
Yes, yes, yes. The clothes were all in progress. They weren't made to order or custom, but they were all from her next line, and it was clearly something she had in mind as she was getting ready to move to North America.
What happened to John Travolta? Did he have a family crisis?
Three things happened. First, his mother died, which hit him hard. Second, he had his first mega-flop, a movie called Moment by momentand that shook him. And the third was that I think he had a growing anxiety about the gay subtext [of the film]. In fact, as the story goes, our friend Kit Carson, who was alive at the time, was living with Karen Black. Karen Black was going to Scientology [meetings]. She comes back and says, “Kit, I think John's going to walk away from the Schrader movie. He's been talking about it in meetings.” And so I started poking around to see who was available.
Was John Travolta sensitive to the topic of homosexuality because he was in Scientology and they didn't approve of gay topics?
I don't know if it's out there now, but it wasn't out there at the time. I don't know if it was true or not, but if it had been, it certainly wouldn't have been something that would have been talked about. Nobody, you know, had come out until Rupert Everett. He was the first one. And he lost a lot of work because of it.
Anyway. John Travolta retired. What did you do?
I liked Gere's idea. I didn't think I could convince Paramount to do it. In fact, John dropped out, one Friday afternoon. I told Barry Diller [the boss at Paramount at the time] that I wanted to approach Gere. And he said, “No, we're going to Chris Reeve.” So the next day, Saturday, I called Chris Reeve's agent and said, “I heard you got the script, but I don't think Chris is right.” So I poisoned the well. There was no way Chris was going to read it! [Laughs mischievously.] And then, on Sunday, I went to see Gere. He was at the beach. So I went to Malibu and Gere was busy watching the Super Bowl. I offered him the part. And he was hesitating and said he couldn't be pushed into making such a big decision on such short notice. So I said, “The game's over in a half hour, but if I leave here the movie will probably be canceled and you won't have a chance to make a decision.” And he said, okay, he would do it.
And Diller?
I went to Barry Diller's house and left a note in his mailbox. An hour later he called me. I told him that Richard Gere was willing to do American Gigoloand I told him that Chris Reeve didn't think it was right for him. I said, 'So tomorrow morning the news is going to hit the trades that John has pulled out. We can't suppress that news anymore. It's too big. Now, after that headline, they're going to ask for your reaction, Barry. Now I can keep John Travolta tied up for three months, legally, because he left ten days before shooting. Legally I can keep him from working for three months. Or, there could be another announcement, Barry, because I know you want John for Urban Cowboy. And I know John wants to do it. So the other announcement you might make is that John has dropped American Gigolo and we're moving forward with Richard Gere.” And Barry called me back an hour later and we made the announcement.